5ish points of armor (was Light Plate Armour, advice)

[Brygun]

My own background includes falling off a roor in 90s. Have fought in the SCA for a decade and a half. My coming to Amtgard is tied closing to reducing back strains yet still enough of a physical challenge for a work out.

I've made armour out of cars before. Still have it but it is  heavy It had articulated knees and elbows with a Wisby style coat of plates. Fabric has died out on the torso. The #2 suit of armor is what has been seen at Twilight Peak. A samurai inspired set made out of thick plastic sheet (not barrel). #2 suit has been rated in at 2 points of armor as non-metal, hard/thick, unauthentic. This is also a reason for wanting to skip 3 points of armor as it wouldnt be worth the extra effort.

So Im looking for advise on making a lighter weight plate armour. This would be one to get a penalty for non-authentic or thin material. Targeting 4 or 5 points of armor. This could be a lamellar or solid plate design.

(My browser hates even moderately long messages on the forums. Ill continue in my next post)

[Brygun]

The first question is on Material:

- Material needs to be light, affordable ($100-$300) and have a source of material (in Toronto/Twilight Peak).

Seems Aluminium may be the way to go for weight. Can't really think of another "metal" that is both light and affordable.

As a source roofing and siding seems plausable. It may however so thin as to need frequent repair.

[Brygun]

Design:
Plate 6 pt - 1 light = 5 pt
or
Lamellar 5 pt - 1 light = 4

For the plate Im considering a "white armor" like this:
http://www.southtower.on.ca/armour/index.html
or the Italian style white
or a LOTR Gondor

For a Lamellar Im considring a Roman lorica segmentata. There are a few refernces of them using arm and leg armour as well.

Come to think of it... I might be able to make a Hoplite sort of thing out of a light metal.

[Vaskus]

as a warrior you can get away with either heavy gauge aluminum 4in1 + a gambeson for 4 points or if its not too weighty a coat of heavy gauge steel 4in1 + gamb for 5 or 6in1 + gamb for 6

Unless you really need plate there is probably other ways to get that armour

[Bowen]

If I can toss a suggestion - recently a player spent A LOT of time working on a suit of Plate Armor, but because the metal was thinner than 18ga, it didn't qualify as armor under our rules; make sure when you get your light material that it is at least 18ga.

[Shay]

If I can toss a suggestion - recently a player spent A LOT of time working on a suit of Plate Armor, but because the metal was thinner than 18ga, it didn't qualify as armor under our rules; make sure when you get your light material that it is at least 18ga.

This.

[Brygun]

as a warrior you can get away with either heavy gauge aluminum 4in1 + a gambeson for 4 points or if its not too weighty a coat of heavy gauge steel 4in1 + gamb for 5 or 6in1 + gamb for 6

Unless you really need plate there is probably other ways to get that armour

What are some of things that have gone as "Augmented Chain"??

edit:
What would it count if you wore thinner than 18 gauge plates over chainmail?

[Vaskus]

Scales are composed of metal (+2) or 3/16” hardened leather (+1), and must be overlapping. Scales may not be added to metal armor. Scales need only be attached to the armor along one edge.
Scales, Metal ...................................... 1.22mm (18-gauge) ...... +2

So for them to count as scales they HAVE to be at least 18 gauge thick BUT you cant add them to metal armours.

[Sephius Rask]

If we're on this topic, I have a question.

If armour would be of lower gauge, say 20~22ga. If you double the plates over, would it be worth normal points?

[Ausric]

@Brygun: If you use a 6-in-1 weave, or any other weave that gets roughly 1.5 times the number of rings per square foot as 4-in-1, you can count it as augmented chain. I've got a hauberk of 14ga aluminum 6-in-1 chain. Because of the inlays i put in it, it counts as "high quality" (as rated by several Champions since making it). This means that the chain alone is 5pts, 6 if worn with an arming coat.

If you're set on the plate idea - i'd suggest going with leather. It's cheaper and easier to work with (in its most basic result) than steel, but can still come out nicely. If you make thick hardened leather with studs, that's 4 points alone. Make it pretty, and you can get 5 out of it. You can get materials at Tandy Leather Factory (two locations in the GTA - Mississauga and Scarborough).

If you're still set on metal plates, try Metal Supermarkets (several locations in the GTA). You'll be able to get anything you'd like there in any gauge.

@Sephius: It is my impression that you can layer. It's common to do it with leather, so, i don't see why steel wouldn't be allowed as well.

[Brygun]

From the rule book:
<quote>
Augmented chain: chain augmented in some fashion from the standard ‘4 in 1,’ such as plates attached to each other by chain, or any of the Persian/Chinese weaves.
</quote>

The "plates attached" part is whats confusing me.

I envision the later Crusader armor with the limited plates over the chain. With the Aillettes on the shoulders, cops on knees and elbows. Maybe that's not the definition here.


Trying to find some picture links... not finding very useful ones for plate-over-chain.

edit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_armour
okay... that's definitely plate over chain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plated_mail
Is plates held together by mail.

So a question is:
How big or thick does the flat pieces of metal need to be to augmenting plates rather than not accepted scales?

[Shalingh]

An augmented chain piece (when it's not simply a Persian or Chinese weave piece) involves small plates held together with rings - think small Lamellar plates held together by rings, although not overlapping.

http://media.photobucket.com/image/augmented%20chain/naturalplastics/discord/DSCF1141.jpg

I think the trick is genuinely in the overlap! Augmented plate sections on a chain piece appear to be suspended and seperated rather than overlapping like metal scales or lamellar.

[Brygun]

Ah that helps to clarify it.

That would seem to be (player view):

Overlapping solid steel = lamellar, though it may have chain links holding it together

Floating nonoverlaping steel amid chain = augmented chain.


>>>>>

One of the armors Im considering is the Gondorian full plate:
http://www.alleycatscratch.com/lotr/Human/Gondor/Armor.htm

[Brygun]

If I can toss a suggestion - recently a player spent A LOT of time working on a suit of Plate Armor, but because the metal was thinner than 18ga, it didn't qualify as armor under our rules; make sure when you get your light material that it is at least 18ga.

This.

If he where to wear the plate over a mail hauberk would the too-light plates give him +1 over the chain alone?

[Shay]

If I can toss a suggestion - recently a player spent A LOT of time working on a suit of Plate Armor, but because the metal was thinner than 18ga, it didn't qualify as armor under our rules; make sure when you get your light material that it is at least 18ga.

This.

If he where to wear the plate over a mail hauberk would the too-light plates give him +1 over the chain alone?

He'd be wearing his own bodyweight in armour at that point.

[Brygun]

He'd be wearing his own bodyweight in armour at that point.

Not if he keeps wearing it. 

On a more serious note: Would these count as 5 pt armor - plates joined via a leather underbody:
http://www.armourarchive.org/patterns/splinted_arms_dwarlock/

[Vaskus]

Those seem like 5pt to me. Kind of a Lamellar/Brigandine mix. Though someone with a little more expertise on rating armour should probably give you a 2nd opinion on that.

Some might also see it as 2pt leather with +2 for metal scales coming upto 4pt.

[Brygun]

Ive been rereading those few paragraphs in the rulebook.

I think those are likely to be scored at 4 pts.

5 pts are:
Brigandine: metal between 2 layers of leather (the one above has just one leather)
Lamellar: plates joined by chains or links, its not.
Double Mail: its not that.

So I think your leather 2 pt with scale +2 = 4pt is right afterall.